Katie Murray, two years on

We understand that something like 11% of group CEOs were the CFO, and we've seen, even in the last couple of weeks in the UK, quite a move up of CFOs into that CEO space. But it wasn't something that I wanted to do. Paul was always on the succession to take over in the event of a need for a quick change. I was always really supportive of that. He was the horse that I would back if I was having to pick one, and then he went through a process to then actually get the job permanently. So from my side, I wouldn't see that as the CFO didn't get it. For me personally, it wasn't something I was interested in if it were to come around again It's something that I would be very warmly considered for if it was something that I wanted to do. So I do still see it as a very strong route through and I would really see as a strong route, particularly for those CFOs, who are CFOs now, but who've also been in the business as well, so that they've managed the P&L from the strategic side as well as from the number side.

So they're definitely very interested in succession planning. Particularly in our situation where we've gone through two big events, so a change of a CEO, change of the chairman. Our investors have been very involved in in those kind of process, and they've asked questions. And they sought to understand how we do what we've done, what's the depth of talent that's behind there. So I do think on succession planning in its widest sense, it's definitely there.

I think the bit that I would if I was marking their end of term report card on gender balance, I think I would probably put them in a little bit of could do better, As a CFO, I spend a huge amount of time out with fund managers and with investors, and it really is a population that is still predominantly male to a very large extent, I go to a number of different investment houses, and there won't be a single woman in the room. And often, if there is, she'll be the ESG specialist. So I would, I would probably put on that that gender piece of their own businesses a little bit of that could do better. And of course, then that means the challenge that they're giving to us, as the companies they invest in, on the gender piece could probably be a little bit stronger.